MS-II extra v.2.1.0, 2xLC-1, EDIS-8 on a 3.9l 260 bhp Rover V8 in a Westfield. No spark, no injector pulse (noid light flashes occasionally). Middle connector is 1,7,4,6. I am currently using ms2extra 3.0.3x firmware with uS on my V twin motorcycle engine but I have also used the B&G firmware. So my truck has not run in over a year. Try starting the engine for about 5~10 seconds (I know the engine won't start because the ignition coil wires are unplugged). Proceeded to power relay checks, passenger side kickpanel area. by mattd860 Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:44 pm, Post ). Still no start. My engine is on the small side and I'm wondering if I'm bottoming out the pulse width at idle. During operation, the measured air flow through the MAF will cause the computer to increase or decrease the pulse width as explained above. Since it started instantaneously when cold before, maybe just the Cranking Fuel Pulsewidth vs ECT function should be adjusted by lowering the last three points (150, 180, infinity). by mrx79 Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:44 pm, Post I suspect air temperature and maybe pressure will play a part in which table is used for IPW as cold air is more dense, therefore more fuel is needed and the same would apply for higher air pressure. The width of injector signal is more than 5ms, sometimes 10 to 15ms; of course too much fuel is injected and spark plugs are plenty of. In this article, you will be taken through the steps you should follow to check the fuel injector pulse using a multimeter before you decide to make use of an injector cleaner. For a no start condition, check injection pulse width (94-95) or C-Time (96-2000 Fuel Solenoid Closure Time) with a scan tool, while cranking (maintain minimum cranking speed 100 rpm cold and 200 rpm hot). The megamanual describes the appropriate method for tuning cranking pulsewidth. With LTFT at -15%, the calculated pulse width that was necessary to achieve 11:1 AFR in boost is now being reduced by 15%, which means the AFR will now be ~12.6:1, much too lean to support the ignition advance being used and causes detonation. In response to this, the ECU has to reduce ignition advance to stop the detonation. The numbers . I got the 88% and 23% values from. Oregon Fuel Injection Manual says -40* cranking pulse should be 88% of the upper req_fuel and the 170* cranking pulse should be 23% of the req_fuel. If I wanted a PW of 5ms, what will the formula be? If the pulse width reaches 2.9-5.5ms, the nozzle is generally blocked. 2022-2023 ScannerDanner 215 Beecham Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15220. If voltage is present proceed to step 2. Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:15 am . Do we just keep adding fuel if it takes too long to crank? I'm building a stock tune map for my ID1000 fuel injectors, and after flashing it the car wants to crank for a long time before firing. Once fuel and spark is confirmed its time to check pulse at the injectors. fluid. : Forum help page : Downloads, Post 2WD. Middle connector is 1,4,6,7, rear connector is 2,3,5,8. He measured the pulse width of the injectors. I didn't think of that earlier. DTC P0340 and/or P0344- Usually a bad Cam Position Sensor. by elaw Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:55 pm, Post 01 S4 F21 work in progress, build thread here. Connect the voltmeter to the F22 (terminal 87) wire at the fuel pump relay connector. It cranks for an extended period of time before starting. [FIXED] Long cranking injector pulse width (60-80ms) was created by Jake Spoiler - A new computer fixed it. So this is equivalent to 4 squirts simult on a 4 cyl engine. How do we tune cranking pulsewidths? 2.1 When the hot car is running at normal idling speed, the pulse width is generally 1.5ms--2.9ms. If no voltage is present, check fusible links and supply voltage from the battery. I have a 87 chevy s-10 with the 4-tech 2.5 engine I have spark but no injector pulse I have changed the hall effect switch, ignition module and ecm to no avail, I have also checked my wires going from injector to the ecm and all checked out. output devices: injector pulse width (ms), fuel pump relay (2 sec prime pulse), emission control devices: egr, diverter, tcc lockup, timing spark advance/retard typical fuel pressure: 58-62 psi (very sensitive to slight low pressures) port fuel injection (pfi) _____ You need to have a good understanding of the electronic fuel injection system so that you can easily recognize when there is no injector pulse. I have since tried to make all 6 tables the same, from 20C till 110C. This value represents the current correction that is being applied. Paper Towel Method - Unplug the ignition coil wires to prevent the engine from starting. The pulse width will be much wider at cranking and lower frequency or PRR. Did the FSM troubleshooting for that code, crank sensor needs replacing. I've got the newest version of AccessTunerRACE and it has 9 cranking tables. Replied by ScannerDanner on topic [FIXED] Long cranking injector pulse width (60-80ms) 50 m.s. I didn't replace the HO2S cause the dealer did it before I bought the RAM, but something strange, when engine is cold (open loop) it runs much better than hot (closed loop? There doesn't seem to be much feedback otherwise. Stuff clean / dry paper towels under each injector. a. lean b. normal c. . Is your fuel pump failing? If you are positive it is the middle connector at ficm with no pulse width, I think you may have disconnected the wrong set of injectors. OhI 100% sure that the dead times are not 100% correct. Unfortunately, the math isn't making any sense to me. The best way to check the pulse is with a noid light, you can get one cheep at Autozone. For your application multiple all of the inj pulswidth by 19/42 "multiply by .45" and you should be very very close. It is a 5.4 2006 f150 Roush stage III. I generally start out by reducing the pulsewidth by the ratio of change in injector size and use a wideband hooked up to a battery box to see what is happening during cranking. EUGENE 4036 West 1st Ave. Eugene, OR 97402 (541) 485-1434 https://oregonfuelinjection.com 2 NO START . Performed check: 2- (2) control unit power input w/ test light. I guess no one reads..injector pulse comes from ecm..via ignition module..pickup coil.Once ecm senses 400 rpm,s from engine it takes over. Hi, I've been surfing this forum, finally registered and making my first post. No injector pulse!!!! Currently, there are 3 variants of electronic fuel injection systems: MPI, GDI, and SPI. As you can see in the attached image, my upper req_fuel is 7. Fule pressure is 62psi at the check valve and it drops to 57 when cranking. STLMustangs from a -40 ECT reading flood out the engine immediately. To get it right I have to set it to 135%. To get 4ms at 65C I would set the cranking pulse to 4/4.3=93%. A 1-6 mS fuel pulse width (FUEL PW) will be sent by the PCM to the IDM if system voltage does not go below 7 volts during cranking, engine cranking speed is above 100 rpm and injection control pressure is above 3450 kPa (500 psi). I due have spark though and fuel pressure also I can make it run on carb clean spray. Normally, the amount of fuel injected is determined by the injector opening time or pulse width. I understand that i should follow the numbers stated in extra manual, but how come that the value's are as far apart while both of them are in % in of req fuel? I can repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. by jsmcortina Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:17 pm, Post The sensor in the distributor is the camshaft position sensor and it has nothing to do with fuel injector pulse width, or ignition spark. Newbie: Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:42 am Posts: 8 Just an update, I have modified the values to be 1.5 * the original values for temperature range, 20C,30C,40C. by whittlebeast Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:54 pm, Post The megamanual describes the appropriate method for tuning cranking pulsewidth. I noticed my engine cranks over much better if I 'prime' the fuel pump multiple times instead of just once. This style of tuning is traditionally used by those whose power demands exceed that which a MAF housing of ~80mm or smaller internal diameter can provide or those who require greatly customized turbocharger and intake tract configurations that do not allow for proper draw-through MAF or recirculating BPV positioning. by wuffwaff Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:49 pm, Post After the new car has been running for a period of time, the nozzles are blocked in different degrees, which reduces the fuel injection volume. 2- (1) ignition coil trigger input w/ testlight. old_master. by Paul_H Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:07 pm, Post The pulse repetition rate is not as important as the pulse width. Technician B says when the TP sensor detects a sudden increase in throttle angle, the PCM increases the injectors' pulse width. The GM TBI system is Pulse Width Modulated (PWM) signal to the injector. See also. 2) If the Noid light does not blink at all when cranking the engine over, check for fuel injector pulse at multiple cylinders as you may just have an issue with that specific circuit. Got good spark at the plugs. Tools Required: Rotunda New Generation Star (NGS) Tester 007-00500 or equivalent scan tool. The constants used are 160 CFM per 100 HP, and an 85% duty cycle for maximum injector pulsewidth. These values are determined and applied based on four separate mass airflow ranges. It is a no start, cylinders are super wet with fuel. This calculator will generate pulsewidth values for specific rpms, from idle to peak speeds. by jsmcortina Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:19 am, Post [FIXED] Long cranking injector pulse width (60-80ms), Request $20 rebate after purchase of ebook, Request $20 rebate after purchase of Paperbook. . Post subject: Re: Cranking Fuel Injector Pulse Width Tables. Conclusion. Connect a voltmeter to the 10 (terminal 30) wire at the fuel pump relay connector. Injection. 08 . View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message by S.Bretz Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:00 am, Post The problem is that this returns a cranking pulse of 3.68ms instead of 4. Other than that the car runs good. Fuel pressure is 64 PSI when key is turned on, about 60 PSI while cranking. In this shot on the stim, I have a reqfuel of 8 but I am getting a cranking PW of 3.24. My required fuel is 15.5ms (2 squirts simultaniously). sounds really high too! So my issue is I havve no injector pulse. Cranking Fuel Injector Pulse Width (RPM) cruise So which ones should I tweak and what's a good modifier to use with 1000cc injectors? Ok, 1.25 * the original values did not help at all for the cranking. They are close, but not correct. Board index Engine Management Systems - Analysis and Tuning Subaru Tuning Subaru Tuning, Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest. : Forum help page : Downloads, Post I've read that I might need to adjust my cranking table, but I'm not sure which one or how many. Thread Tools. Injectors are 12v key on and 5v reference on the other wire, they ground internally in the PCM. This is a percentage correction of the injector pulse width. Posted on Jan 05, 2016 . Then the ecu had no power whatsoever. Check the CPS voltage at the ECU, which is mounted over the gas pedal under the dash. The only true way to determine injector dead time is by physical flow testing using the test mode. Fires right up. A) As you crank the engine, with the key in the START position, the ECU will use only the tables located in the Cranking section to control fueling. 2008 Silverado 1500 Z71 LTZ | Cam Motion 222/232 | Fox 2.0s | 1 7/8 Long tubes | I have a 2003 F250 XL Super Cab 5.4 RWD A/T. . Forgot your password? The current to open the injector, signaled from Pin 21, is both the injector open/close and the injector's pulse width. I continue to make payments of about $550 MONTH. Steps to follow when testing injector resistance using a multimeter. For tuning MS3, you should probably not be looking at the "megamanual", that's for the older B&G code for MS1 and MS2. When an engine needs to make more powerto accelerate onto a highway, for examplethe onboard computer increases the pulse width of the fuel injectors to deliver more fuel. But injectors pulse works off of ground from ecm.you have to have the grounds at thermostat and intake or will not pulse injectors.Grounds for all sensors. Will start and run for a few seconds if fuel is sprayed in the throttle. The MS3 code is based on the MS2X code, so I think the page you should be looking at is this one: Thanks all. . IDM. I have ignition power and ground but no reference voltage from the pcm. Forgot your username? by ender Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:57 pm, Post For the past 6 days, my cold start (after sitting overnight or 5-6 hours), is wonderful. The PCM uses various sensors to determine how much fuel is needed. Had an old GM TBI with a 40 m.s. I did find one electrical issue that may be something - the pcm is putting 0.2v on the cylinder id line pin10 of the ficm with key on. The truck build is in another section. At high RPM, the IDM has limited capacity to maintain the firing pulse width. "The voltage offset is then added to the effective pulse width to give us a commanded IPW of 2.28 ms." Copyright 1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc. Is the Service Engine Soon light on when the engine is running? When I took apart the ecu the copper "road" about 1 inch from the pin leading to pin 45 was blown. The water temp is showing 186F Should I expect a PW of 8ms when cranking? Who is . It was good. I am trying to dial in the cranking fuel injector pulse width tables to allow my car to start better. Found some broken harness wires going to the crank sensor so I ran new wires from the PCM to the sensor and new plug. As we all know tuning is based on what the engine is telling you it wants so unless there is a big difference in the logic of how cranking fuel pulses are delivered (all injectors fire on every ignition event) between the two firmwares, I don't see how my engine can deliver the same result with a pulsewidth calculated from 23% - 88% of required fuel with B&G code and a pulsewidth calculated from 100% -300% of required fuel with ms2extra code. and also the other issue no scanner will read the PCM [the fuse is . While cranking a fuel injected engine and holding the accelerator to the wide-open throttle position, the air/fuel mixture will be _____. ok..with all the injectors unplugged there is no light at all with the engine cranking (no pulse) and also no light . by wuffwaff Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:27 pm, Post Long injector pulse width.. Dart SHP 8.2 block, forged steel crank & rods, forged pistons, Trick Flow T/W 11R 205 CNC comp ported heads, 12:1 comp ratio, 232-244 duration/.623" lift/114 LSA . I've always done that, and have never had an issue getting started after I've got it dialed in. Injector opening time perhaps? Any little bit that they are off and a large injector means a world of difference in fuel. Using the cranking taper to "sweep" the pulse width can make getting the exact cranking pulse width setting less critical and result in faster starts. 1. The temperatures in the screenshot are in degrees centigrade, the corresponding temperatures in Farenheit are as follows: I think I missed something. Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation. Get one of your local "tuner teens" to plug into your computer and reset the injector pulse width . It is now even better than my warm start.. Engine Management Systems - Analysis and Tuning, Cranking Fuel Injector Pulse Width Tables, viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4143&p=40673&hilit=exiga#p40673, https://sites.google.com/site/openms41/tuning. And these numbers need to be taken and various engine operating conditions. Had a P0335 code. I don't think the really is going to be a very good "ballpark" number. Try disconnecting injector connectors 1,4,6,7, one at a time to see if you can get it to run on 7 cylinders. - Cranking Fuel Injector Pulse Width Base A-D *(4 tables total) MANUAL. by mtlcafan79 Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:00 pm, Post Sometimes I will let go of the key and it starts immediately on the second turn of the key. Honda CRX B16A1 Turbo | MS3 running | pre1.5.1 beta7 Firmware | 24/1 Dual Wheel | COP ignition | 725cc ID injectors. the PCM decreases the injection pulse width. But then again, a big factor here is the flow rate differences of injectors themselves. You should get battery volts with the key on, ground is supplied by the ECU to fire each injector. youtube.com. A good starting point would be to calculate a multiplier based on (Factory Injector Flow / Aftermarket Injector Flow) and apply that to the IPW for each Base A-F . I checked power to # 1 coil. . Crank the engine over about 5 seconds the gauge should read between 125 psi and 165 psi, if no compression is observed remove front engine cover to inspect timing belt or chain. I scaled the injectors and used the latency values that came with the injectors. See also. p.w. 1- (9a-d) control unit ground circuits continuity w/ multimeter, all were good. ICP . What is the minimum usable/reasonable injector pulse width for the Sniper? by wuffwaff Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:27 pm, Post You would want to modify the Base A-F tables. With the engine cranking, it should show at least .25 Volts AC. Anyone know what all the individual cranking tables affect? How Pulse Width Is Determined 3) Connect or jumper the KEY ON Orange leads to the EGR solenoid and the injector. Had an old GM TBI with a 40 m.s. Fuel pump and and all that will work fine. by jsmcortina Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:04 pm, Post Injectors will go static at about a 92% duty cycle and should be sized for an 80% duty cycle to leave some "wiggle" room. A new pcm is 116.00 . I do have 12V at each injector on one pin at the connector and continuity back to the PCM on the other pin. Aug 29, 2007. Test with the KEY ONyou may need to crank the engine to get an injector pulse signal. It should contain the injector pulse width, in milliseconds, required to supply the fuel for a single injection event at stoichiometric combustion and 100% volumetric efficiency. "Now we know we need an effective pulse width of 1.6 ms, the ECU will then look at the voltage offset table at 14 volts and 43.5 psi (3 bar) of fuel pressure and see that the correct offset value is 0.68 ms," says von Holten. Anyway, Tasca Ford told me he has been through the wiring and it is all fine but the truck won't run. Where did you get the 88% and 23% values from? If your cranking a long time or just not starting as it gets cold/hot you need to start here. Pulse width is the duration (time interval) that . Q: We have a '97 Chevy Astro van in the shop that wouldn't start. MAP/BARO, O2, MASS AIR FLOW SENSOR NUMBERS, IAT, ECT, TPS and TROUBLE CODES. If not, there is a CPS patch kit available at the dealer to bypass the original wiring harness and connect the CPS directly to the ECU. Good spark and fuel pressure no injector pulse - Toyota 2002 Highlander question. hi mrf582, I had the same suspicion as well. it dies. I was wondering the same thing. Injectors are not pulsing. Thread: Injector pulsewidth during cranking. cam crank sync - yes ficm sync - yes rpm 600 oil pressure 1700psi @14% while cranking oil pressure voltage 0.25 koeo It will run on wd40 Did not find and opens or shorts in the wiring. ignition devide by 1. injection angle end of injection. Cranks no start. . 8. The second you stop spraying. I have power to the injector but no ground coming from the pcm. The typical injector pulse width for an idling engine at normal operating temperature is between 2.5 and 3.5 ms.